11 comments on “KDE 4, Mandriva ’08, and oh… Happy New Year!

  1. If the package can’t be installed, then i may be because the mirror is not correctly synced.
    Then just choose another mirror!
    I can advise you to use proxad/free/distrib-coffee

    Another thing you can do to see the message is using urpmi :
    urpmi task-printing

  2. Thanks for the information fabrice!

    I’m already in Ubuntu 6.06, but I figure I’ll get back around to Mandriva at some point, either through an install or VM.

    Aaahhh. The life of a distro-hopper!

  3. Can we keep a perspective and leave the hype for when KDE4 has actually been
    (a) released
    (b) integrated into the distros and
    (c) all inevitable bugfixes have been made so that simple things actually work without errors? Please?

    In my reckoning that will be about a year from now. Here’s why.

    (I) No end-user will ever install KDE-x from scratch (as that always hangs at some point or another) but will instead rely on their distributions to do that.

    (II) Distributions will typically show a lead time of 6 months before they have received recompiles / bugfixes for enough application packages to allow them to work with the new KDE4 Gui.

    (III) Allow distributions at least 1 iteration to iron out most of the problems, giving 2 x 6 months = 1 year.

    Until then, KDE-4 will be pretty darned useless to end-users.

  4. Oh yes, and something else.

    The attention of KDE developers has shifted from KDE-3 to KDE-4. Meaning that no-one is willing to do bug-fixing for KDE-3.

    Now that’s a perfectly understandable human reaction because, after all, who wants to sweat over code that will be thrown away in a year anyway? Right?

    Only … it leaves distributions in the lurch, either having to face KDE-3 maintenance problems themselves or having to wait until KDE-4 gets its act together.

    Now guess what that means for end-users. I think it means that end-users face a full year of non-support for their KDE applications. KDE-3 apps won’t be supported because developers don’t want to waste their time on it, KDE-4 apps will be supported, but there will be so many things to do that individual-level problemscan’t be addressed until the global ones have been ironed out.

    I’m sorry, but this is one area where commercial code development tends to have an edge. People can be directed to do bug-fixing, even if their efforts are guaranteed to be irrelevant a year from now.

    Bad for them, but good for the end-user.

  5. Thanks for the comments golodh 🙂

    The review of KDE 4 was my perspective of the project in it’s current state, in the .deb repositories. Personally, I believe that KDE 4 won’t really shine until the 4.1 (or whatever they call it) is released.

    I agree that the move to KDE 4 will be a decisive one for developers of various linux distros. I imagine that the move will be especially hard on the smaller non-commercial distributions.

  6. “no-one is willing to do bug-fixing for KDE-3.”

    golodh, that is a flat-out lie. what the heck do you think kde 3.5.8 was? developers will continue fixing important bugs (excluding ones that just *cannot* be fixed in kde3, of course) for quite some time. they’re not going to just run off and abandon kde3 when kde4 is still on 0.0. there are several kde programs outside of the core software that haven’t been ported to kde4 at all yet.

    that said, keeping perspective is good advice. kde 4.0.0 is a beginning. it brings new technology, a new foundation, which will be used to do awesome things for 4.1, 4.2 and so on. as such, it’s a little rough around the edges, and there are a fair number of features missing right now. developers aren’t expecting everyone to jump ship right away. even people who want to use kde4.0.0 will also have kde3 programs running – the world of kde software is just too darn big to make this leap all at once.

  7. @chani

    I was thinking of the action by Ubuntu as reported here:

    http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39044164,62035947,00.htm

    My bald statement: “no-one is willing to do bug-fixing for KDE-3” is too sweeping. Granted.

    However, when a major Linux distribution decides to withhold support for KDE because support wanes as a result of a major version transition, I think we can safely say that the converse “KDE-3 is adequately supported” really isn’t true either.

    I believe that the thrust of what I wrote stands:
    – KDE-3 currently suffers from lessened support because developers want to work with KDE-4, not KDE-3. KDE version 3.5.8 notwithstanding.
    – therefore distributions will have a problem supporting KDE-3
    – therefore end-users will now experience more much sluggish bugfixing and more unresolved problems than usual with KDE-3

  8. Can someone delete the spare posts please?

    I had difficulties logging in, and before I knew it 3 copies were posted.

  9. (Sorry, this is a bit long-winded…)

    This is one of the most common issues with RPM-based distributions. The RPM package format itself is rather lacking in features, and Red Hat has not fixed it in the nearly 12 years that I have had issues like this with it.

    Any dpkg-based distribution is better than any RPM-based one is, at least as far as the stability of the package management system goes. I remember someone once telling me that when you install Red Hat, you don’t upgrade it—you reinstall it when it is time to update the system software—because it is “just easier”.

    And KDE 4 has been somewhat disappointing for me. Once upon a time, I used KDE, and then I found that there were many things missing from it that I needed. KDE 4 (which was expected originally before Windows Lookie Here I Am Pretty But Do Very Little) was supposed to fix all of the things that were missing for me. However, I have not even gotten the release candidate to run well enough to try to find out if they fixed those things! 9 times out of 10, free software’s “beta” releases are better than most companies’ “gold” releases. KDE has broken this rule for some time, though, and with their focus changed to trying to catch up with their very late delivery… well, the system won’t survive unless it is damn good, I think.

  10. I hope this release goes well for the KDE team. I like using KDE (as well as GNOME, but that’s besides the point). If this release does not go well, I hope that people can understand and wait for the 4.1 release. At the same time, KDE 4 is a major release, and one that should have most of the features and show-stopper bugs fixed. KDE is a great desktop, but it is almost like KDE 3 is too good for the KDE project, much like Windows XP is for Microsoft, albeit in a creepy kind of way.

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